THE newly refurbished office of Gen Da’i Bachtiar on the second floor of the Indonesian Embassy along Jalan Tun Razak in Kuala Lumpur is spick and span, with things neatly in place. Compared to his previous office crammed on the sixth floor, this one is a comfortable setting complete with a large conference table. By his side are framed photographs of himself in full police regalia as the Indonesian national police chief. 

Now serving his second year as Indonesian Ambassador to Malaysia, Bachtiar, 59, has not forgotten his days in uniform as he grapples with the current bilateral storms. 

Bachtiar: ‘I hope Malaysians will understand. We want only what is reasonable for our workers’ 

“If our people act beyond the limits permitted by the law, they are committing an offence. Action will be taken,” he tells Sunday Star in an interview. 

The ex-police general, honoured with a Tan Sri award by Malaysia for his heroics in investigating the Bali bombing in 2002 and the Jakarta Marriot bombing in 2003, was referring to the Ganyang Malaysia (Crush Malaysia) campaign being conducted in the streets of Jakarta and the “sweeping” action against Malaysians. 
As Indonesia’s main point man here, Bachtiar has not been spared criticisms by the uncompromising Indonesian media and also has to face other rhetorical arrows aimed at him from Jakarta. 

“I was told during my confirmation hearing that even an angel would not take up the posting in Malaysia because of the varied dimension of issues one would have to handle here. To be quite honest, not a day has passed without some sort of controversy!” he says before breaking into a hearty laugh. 

In the interview, Bachtiar addressed the charge that Malaysia had “stolen” the Balinese Pendet dance, efforts to soothe ruffled feelings on both sides, the Manohara-Kelantan palace controversy, wages for Indonesian domestic workers, and the crime rate involving Indonesians. 

Bachtiar is Professor of Security & Counter-Terrorism at Edith Cowan University and chairs the Indonesia Crime Prevention Foundation. 

Below are excerpts from the interview. 

Q: As the ambassador and also former head of the Indonesian National Police, what do you make of the violent anti-Malaysia movements in Jakarta?

A: No one should be faced with such threats. Not just Malaysians … all foreigners (in Indonesia) should not be subjected to “sweeping” actions. Their personal safety should be guaranteed. The “sweeping” action was against the law. 

I telephoned the Indonesian police chief directly to enquire about the “sweeping” and was given an assurance that action would be taken. As the former police chief myself, I know that such offensive actions are not to be condoned. I am confident that the Indonesian police can handle the situation. 

> Would you say the anti-Malaysia sentiment is very deep-rooted in Indonesia?

I would put it on the fast, free-flowing information. Before, people just depended on newspapers and when something happened, it would take some time to be known. Now, with the media being so active and various means of conveying news being used, things can get viral very fast. Even if something was not true, it could be passed off as true. So the best is, whenever there is a misunderstanding, our two sides should meet quickly at the G-to-G level and diffuse things. The media should also play their role. 

> According to analysts in Indonesia, it is not just your media fuelling issues against Malaysia but certain politicians as well in order to gain popularity.

Let me explain that with regard to the Pendet dance controversy. The Pendet dance is actually unique, unlike our other dances which can be described as serumpun (common with Malaysia). It means that if there is dance originating in Sumatra or Java it could also emerge in Malaysia. But the Pendet is exclusively Balinese; it is highly unusual for the Balinese to have brought it here. So when this dance was used in a clip promoting Malaysia, questions were raised. Now we know that it was Discovery Channel’s oversight. But when it was first aired, the Indonesian side had to raise it directly with Malaysia and not with Discovery Channel. 

Some quarters (in Indonesia) then raised previous concerns with Malaysia and this sparked off the outrage. It is difficult to pinpoint who, as there is a great level of freedom and democracy in Indonesia now. People can now freely express themselves but it has to be within limits. If these are infringed, the authorities will act. In the “sweeping act” against Malaysians, our authorities have acted. Even the President described the “sweeping act” as excessive. 

> You were quoted by the Indonesian media as saying “Kita malu karena semua tuduhan bahwa Malaysia mengklaim budaya kita itu tidak benar (We are ashamed because the accusation that Malaysia stole Indonesian culture is not true).” You were harshly criticised for saying that.

I never used the word malu (ashamed) - not to the Indonesian nor the Malaysian media. What I said was that Malaysia had explained that it was not involved in the usage of the Pendet clip, that it was done by Discovery Channel. I met with Norman (Abdul Halim, chief executive officer of the KRU Group of Companies, which produced the series of documentaries to showcase Malaysia’s cultural heritage on Discovery Channel) and he brought the copies to show that KRU was not involved with the Pendet dance clip promo. 

> What action did you personally undertake here to try and quell the unrest there?

I met the Information, Communication and Culture Minister Datuk Seri Rais (Yatim) and handed over a letter from the Indonesian Culture Minister officially seeking a response on the Pendet controversy. We did not focus on that alone but also on ways to move forward, on ways to ensure that these things do not recur. I brought the head of our Eminent Persons Group (EPG, established to improve Indonesia-Malaysia ties) Bapak Try Sutrisno to meet the Prime Minister. The PM agreed to meet him although this was not arranged earlier and that was very nice of him. Both sides talked about measures to improve the situation and get closer to each other. The President himself is coming to Kuala Lumpur in October. 

> What proposals did Sutrisno have?

Both our EPGs have made their recommendations, which have been forwarded to our respective governments. It is now a matter of implementation. One proposal is to get the media from both sides to interact. We intend to kickstart this after Hari Raya – invite Indonesian journalists here for discussions with their Malaysian counterparts. Another is to forge closer collaboration among our younger people. Those of us aged 50 and above already know the background. Our younger generation may have studied in other countries and subscribed to other views and opinions, so we need to address this. We also want our historians, cultural experts and artists to meet and consult. 

> On the controversy involving Manohara, you also received severe criticisms from the Indonesian media, which labelled you pengecut (coward) for not standing up for her against the Kelantan palace. What was that about?

It was a family issue. When Manohara’s mother informed us that her daughter was having problems, I took it up with the Kelantan royalty. I wrote to ask if Manohara was all right. The royal family then sent its representatives to meet me in my office. They denied the claim and even told me that she was picnicking on an island. In order for me to be convinced, I asked to meet with Manohara. They agreed to arrange that but this did not happen. 

Then Manohara’s mother was refused entry into Malaysia and this created more ripples in the Indonesian media. The embassy then wrote to the Malaysian Foreign Minister to enquire. Fortunately, Manohara went to Singapore and managed to escape from there. When she was asked by the Indonesian media what the embassy had done for her, she replied “nothing!” I don’t blame her as she did not know about anything. 

> But Manohara went further than that, didn’t she? She accused the embassy of taking bribes from the Kelantan palace and demanded that you be recalled to Indonesia.

That we could not stomach – the accusation that we had taken bribes. If Manohara thinks we have not acted in her interest, it’s okay. But it is deplorable for her to accuse us of receiving bribes from the Kelantan palace. She should provide proof, as she is making a criminal allegation. On her asking for me to be recalled, that’s her personal view. After all, she is young and full of zest. I don’t take what she says very seriously. Any decision (to recall me) rests solely with the President. I leave it only to his wisdom. 

> On another sore point, the recruitment of Indonesian maids: it has turned into a very contentious issue here with fresh demands being made by your side.

We have had several rounds of talks and there are issues yet to be ironed out. But we have in principle concurred on the major items such as pay-offs, passport (retention) and wages. 

On maid abuse, the legal guidelines have been determined. The remaining issue is the cost of recruiting our domestic workers. Malaysians have been complaining about the high cost structure. This is for the agents to determine but if they can’t, then our governments will have to step in. 

It is not to the maid’s advantage if the recruitment cost is very high, as the employer may decide to deduct her wages. We hope to reach an agreement by October. 

> You were reported to have demanded a RM800 monthly wage for Indonesian domestic workers. Isn’t that a big jump from what they are being paid here now?

There must be a reasonable limit set. Our maids, with the same ability as the ones sent here, earn RM1,600 in Hong Kong and Taiwan, between RM600 and RM750 in Saudi Arabia, and RM700 in Singapore. Their wage in Malaysia, in the peninsula, is between RM500 and RM600 on the average. But in Sabah and Sarawak, it is as low as RM200 to RM300. So, what do we do? I hope Malaysians will understand. We want only what is reasonable for our workers. 

> So, are you asking for a minimum RM800 monthly wage for them?

No, I don’t how that figure came about. What’s reasonable is between RM500 and RM600. When I was hosting a buka puasa event (for a group of Indonesian workers here), many told me that their monthly wage was below RM500. I asked the factory workers how much they were paid, and found out that their wages were even lower. I said this should not be, as factory workers are categorised under the formal sector and should receive higher payment up to at least RM800. This could have been misunderstood by the media to mean RM800 for domestic workers. 

> Let’s get this clear then: you are saying that the minimum wage for Indonesian domestic workers should be RM600?

Yes. But we are flexible. If the maid is happy with her RM500 or RM550 wage, the embassy will renew her passport when the employers seek to extend her services. The benchmark we are setting is RM600. But it is between the maid and her employers to decide on what is acceptable. If RM550 is acceptable to both sides, then that’s okay. If they agree on RM800, it’s even better! We are talking here about extension of contracts only. When the workers first arrive here on a two-year contract, the wages are already determined by the agents. After that, who protects the maids? It is the embassy which has to protect them, by requiring the employers to sign a (minimum wage) contract. Those who can afford to pay more are welcomed to do so. There are Indonesian domestic workers here being paid even up to RM1,000. 

> The embassy will not renew the passports of maids who are not paid at least RM500 then?

The lowest is RM500, if that is agreeable to the maid. Let there be an understanding between the maid and her employer. That’s all we want. We will ask the maid if she wants to continue working with her employer. If she says no, we will not renew her passport. There have been occasions when the maid who has said “no” came back to us a day or two later saying she has changed her mind. This has also happened with employers. 

> The crime rate involving Indonesians here is a major concern. I have to raise this with you.

I have mentioned and repeated many times to our people here that they should observe the laws and not get into trouble. I have regular meetings with them and never fail to stress this point. As they are our citizens, the embassy has to provide legal assistance if they are caught. I appeal to the Malaysian Government to be fair to our people, in that the action taken is fair. Anybody could have committed the crime, another foreigner or even a Malaysian. Please let the embassy know if an Indonesian is believed to be involved so that we can do something. To the police here, please do not just shoot and kill Indonesians. I am an ex-police general, I know what I’m talking about. If you shoot to kill, you’re sentencing that person to death. 

> You’re saying that Indonesian suspects are being shot randomly here?

That is for the IGP to answer – on what is happening here. But it is evident that (most of those) shot are Indonesians. I intend to raise this matter with the Malaysian police – what the procedures are and whether they are acceptable (to Indonesia). 

> But one can’t deny that the crime rate involving Indonesians here is hitting the roof.

One should also know that crime is a product of society itself. If someone has any religious belief, he or she will not commit crime. Religion teaches us that. In Indonesia, we have anti-crime programmes to prevent people from becoming victims. Just like your Malaysian Crime Prevention Foundation, we also have the Indonesian Crime Prevention Foundation which I still chair. We are studying ways to tackle this problem.